Monday, September 21, 2009

If It Quacks Like a Duck

President Obama argued on TV talk shows this weekend that his proposed mandate for everyone to buy health insurance - or face a large financial penalty - is not a tax increase:

In a testy exchange on ABC's "This Week," broadcast Sunday, Obama rejected the assertion that forcing people to obtain coverage would violate his campaign pledge against raising taxes on middle-class Americans.

"For us to say you have to take responsibility to get health insurance is absolutely not a tax increase," Obama said in response to persistent questioning, later adding: "Nobody considers that a tax increase."

Well, I consider it a tax increase, so I guess that makes me nobody.

The real question is whether this tax increase is a good idea. My answer is no. If others disagree, then fine, let's have that debate. But denying plain truths suggests that advocates of Obamacare are trying to pass something that Americans would not endorse if it were structured and explained clearly.

34 comments:

Justin Kraus said...

According to Webster's dictionary (perhaps not the best tax authority but nevertheless) Obama's proposed demand that everyone buy health insurance is not technically a tax because the money with which you pay for that insurance is not usually, or at least not necessarily, going to the government for "public purposes" but to a private insurance company.
Nevertheless, I pretty much agree that it is a distinction without a real difference and an all around bad idea to penalize people who decide not to buy health insurance. In way I find this approach to be a bigger infringement on my personal freedom than a completely nationalized healthcare system would be. At least in that case the government is giving me something instead of forcing me to do something.

Steve M. said...

how about this definition of tax... "to make difficult or excessive demands upon"...

Fady said...

ABC is getting uppity. Bet He won't appear there next time. ABC and FOX to the corner and face the wall please.

Fady said...

@Justin: Does excise tax on your car qualify as a tax? How about Tobacco tax? Gasoline tax that is hidden as part of the price?

As Jeff said, if it quacks...

clifton said...

It would be child abuse to refuse to buy clothes or food for your children, and you could be hauled off to jail. Yet if I buy a box of Wheaties, I'm not being taxed by General Mills.

Does this really strike anyone as debatable? Am I a crazed lefty for thinking that there's a difference between paying a company for its product and paying the government a tax?

@Fady: a gasoline tax, while hidden in the cost of the gas, is payed to the government. When you buy something, whether cereal or insurance, the money goes to the seller.

Anonymous said...

@clifton...if you grow your own food, and make your own clothes, and had to pay General Mills for something you don't want, or need, it's a Tax.

Anonymous said...

Everyone needs health insurance. If you don't have it and get sick, WE (the taxpayers) have to pay. So the question remains - how do we get the people that do not have health insurance insured? Or should we just stick with the present system?

The fact of the matter is that the left wants EVERYONE to have healthcare coverage for little or no money (unless you are "rich" then you pay dearly) - whereas the right wants.... what does the right want anyway?

Anonymous said...

To Anonymous @ September 23, 2009 6:42 PM,

True enough, if people w/o insurance and w/o the ability to pay for serious care get sick (most people w/o insurance cannot pay for serious care) then WE have to pay for them. So is the argument that it will be cheaper when everyone has insurance, or is the argument that it will be even more expensive than it is now, but that it is a moral imperative to give everyone insurance, therefore we're obligated to pay the extra cost? If it's the latter, well there's really nothing to argue about, as moral imperatives are not something we can really argue over. But if the assertion is the former (that it will be cheaper when everyone has insurance) then I guess I'm unconvinced.

I mean, not everyone gets sick all the time... so while it's true that it is more expensive to provide ER care for an *individual* when compared to what we might call "preventative care," I'm not sure it follows that it's less expensive to have *everyone* get health care at an earlier stage. If we're comparing apples to apples, it seems like we should compare the consumer behavior (for lack of a better term) of all the people who are currently uninsured now, to the consumer behavior of their future selves once they have insurance, rather than just looking at the ones who are going to the ER this year or next year or what have you. Many of the uninsured aren't at the ER, but at home, with either no pressing medical needs or a subjective belief that their needs can't be met (and this may very well be a warranted belief).

I'm not a budget expert, nor am I a fervent opponent of reform, but I have the suspicion that the argument from the left about ER care doesn't pan out, once all things are considered.

But I'm open to being shown what I'm missing.

Jay J

Anonymous said...

Clifton's analogy is flawed. Actually, it's not even his analogy - he copied it. Nonetheless, here's the flaw. Food and clothing are necessities that a parent is expected to provide for a child and while one can argue that a parent is responsible for providing healthcare for a child, such an assumption does not imply that the parent must utilize insurance to pay for that healthcare.

Paying the government (a third party that is clearly NOT the seller of the health care product) so that the government can determine what healthcare my child gets or doesn't get and purchasing it from some provider it determines is qualified is not the equivalent of me directly purchasing the food or clothing I choose form the seller I choose at the price I choose.

clifton said...

@Anonymous: You say "Paying the government . . . is not the same . . ."

Well, thats one reason that it's a bit silly to call this a tax. There's no paying the goverment involved.

In fact, if one wants to convince a liberal that this whole health care reform is a bad idea, it's precisely this not paying the government that one should emphasize. (e.g. say things like "Big business has corrupted this country beyond recognition. And now their lobbyists are about to pass a law mandating that you turn over your income to health insurance companies even as these companies make billions in profit. Are you going to stand for that?" )

clifton said...

@Anonymous: One more thing. At the end of your post you seem to suggest that buying a product regulated by a government agency is always a form of tax.

You will find, upon reflection, that you don't really mean that.

For instance, when you walk into a grocery store, you don't get to buy any food that some might want to sell. You only get to select from foods that are regulated and approved by the FDA. But it would be nuts to insist that all purchases of food are a form of tax.

Anonymous said...

...and if the FDA demanded you buy the food it regulates, or pay a penalty, then it'd be a tax. Clifton, this is a very simple concept, you're being purposefully obtuse. Do you have incentive to make people believe this is not a tax?

Anna said...

A tax "is not a voluntary payment or donation, but an enforced contribution, exacted pursuant to legislative authority" and is "any contribution imposed by government […] whether under the name of toll, tribute, tallage, gabel, impost, duty, custom, excise, subsidy, aid, supply, or other name." (from wikipedia)

Sounds like a tax to me.

Does it really matter what it's called anyway? It is what it is. The government is forcing you to pay for something you either can't or don't want to pay for because it's "for your own good".

jimbino said...

Those hundreds of thousands of us expatriate Amerikans sure will consider as a burdensome TAX the annual Obamafine imposed on us for not having insurance for medical care that will be totally unavailable to us overseas.

It is a canard that the costs of medical treatment for the uninsured are borne by the insured. Since 50 cents of every healthcare dollar spent in the USSA is spent by the Feds, it can be argued that any uninsured person who shows up for treatment has already paid half the cost. Furthermore, since the uninsured probably use far less medical care (think "healthy young male")than the typical insured, it can be argued that the it is the uninsured who actually subsidize the insured.

Those here who ignorantly assert that the insured subsidize the uninsured would be well advised to shut their traps until they have some evidence. That applies especially to Obama, of course.

Anonymous said...

cb mall -
combat the fat -
conversationalhypnosis -
conversational hypnosis -
credit secrets bible -
destroy hemorrhoids -
dirty talking guide -
dotcom income secrets -
duplicate file cleaner -
dvd copy pro -
earth4energy -
earth 4 energy -
easy launcher -
easy system cleaner -
eatstopeat -
eat stop eat -
eczema free forever -
end your tinnitus -
error nuker -
fatburningfurnace -
fat burning furnace -
fat loss 4 idiots -
final sync -
firewall gold -
fitness model program -
fit over 40 -
fit yummy yummy -
flattenyourabs -
flatten your abs -
forex candlesticks made easy -
forex killer -
forex megadroid -
get rid of your cellulite -
g money pro -

Anonymous said...

google shadow -
governmentregistry -
government registry -
gov resources -
health biz in a box -
homemadeenergy -
home made energy -
hybrid water power -
i software tv -
joyful tomato -
keyword spy pro -
kingdom of pets -
macro virus -
malware bot -
maternityacupressure -
maternity acupressure -
meet your sweet -
microcap millionaires -
moles warts removal -
mole wart removal -
muscle gaining secrets -
natural cure for yeast infection -
paid surveys etc -
panic away -
pdf creator -
public records pro -
quick article pro -
quick income blueprint -
quit smoking today -
ranking loophole -
reg clean -
reg defense -
regi cleanse -
registry easy -

Anonymous said...

registry genius -
registry winner -
reg sweep -
reg tool -
reverse mobile -
richard mackenzie direct -
rig worker -
rocket chinese -
rocket french -
rocket german -
rotator cuff training -
rss feeds submit -
save the marriage -
site builder elite -
six figure yearly 2009 -
sleep tracks -
sold in 21 days -
spyware stop -
stop being tired -
stop your hair loss -
the bad breath report -
thedietsolutionprogram -
the diet solution program -
tonsil stones remedies -
top secret magic code -
truth about abs -
turbulence training -
turn your photos into cash -
vincedelmontefitness -
vince del monte fitness -
warp speed fat loss -
wedding speech 4u -
win clear -
xbox 360 red light fix -

Anonymous said...

xp repair pro -
1st promotion -
3 redlight fix -
500 love making tips -
acid alkaline diet -
advanced defrag -
anti spyware -
anti spyware bot -
art of approaching -
banish rosacea -
blog lock down -
brad yates -
building a chicken coop -
burnthefat -
burn the fat -
carb rotation diet -
combat the fat -
conversationalhypnosis -
conversational hypnosis -
copy n profit -
credit secrets bible -
cure angular cheilitis -
cure morning sickness -
dirty talking guide -
domain tweak system -
dotcom income secrets -
duplicate file cleaner -
earth4energy -
earth 4 energy -
easy launcher -
easy system cleaner -
eatstopeat -
eat stop eat -
eczema free forever -

Anonymous said...

email finder -
energy 2 green -
error nuker -
evidence smart -
fat burning furnace -
fat loss 4 idiots -
final sync -
fitness model program -
fit yummy yummy -
flattenyourabs -
forex enterprise -
governmentregistry -
government registry -
home job stop -
homemadeenergy -
home made energy -
how do i get him back -
hyper vre -
keyword spy pro -
kingdom of pets -
mafia war secrets -
malware bot -
master cleanse secrets -
maternityacupressure -
maternity acupressure -
maximum paid surveys -
meet your sweet -
mobile tv pro -
musclegainingsecrets -
muscle gaining secrets -
my dish biz -
one minute cure -
paid surveys online -
panic away -

Anonymous said...

pc tv 4 me -
pdf creator -
perfect optimizer -
pick the gender of your baby -
plr wholesaler -
private niche empire -
project quick cash -
public records pro -
pull your ex back -
quick article pro -
quit smoking today -
reality creation secrets -
reg clean -
regi cleanse -
registry easy -
registry fix -
registry winner -
reg sweep -
reg tool -
reverse mobile -
reverse phone detective -
richard mackenzie direct -
rich garbage man -
rocket chinese -
rocket french -
seize cars -
shop until you drop -
six figure yearly 2009 -
sleep tracks -
spyware nuker -
spyware stop -
sunshine 4u -
the bad breath report -
the cash1234 system -

Anonymous said...

thedietsolutionprogram -
the diet solution program -
the free car -
the lazy marketer -
tonsil stones remedies -
truth about abs -
truth about diets -
turbulence training -
vincedelmontefitness -
vince del monte fitness -
violin master pro -
warp speed fat loss -
wedding speech 4u -
xp repair pro -
yeast infection no more -
2ip hosting -
10 minute forex wealth builder -
30 minute back links -
500 love making tips -
acid alkaline diet -
advanced defrag -
affiliate jackpot -
anti spyware -
art of approaching -
battery reconditioning -
blogging to the bank -
burnthefat -
burn the fat -
carb rotation diet -
carp evolution -
cb bonus domination -
combat the fat -
content website builder -
conversationalhypnosis -

Anonymous said...

conversational hypnosis -
cure angular cheilitis -
cure morning sickness -
dirty talking guide -
driver robot -
earth4energy -
earth 4 energy -
easy launcher -
easy system cleaner -
eatstopeat -
eat stop eat -
error smart -
evidence eraser -
evidence smart -
fatburningfurnace -
fat loss 4 idiots -
fitness model program -
fit yummy yummy -
flattenyourabs -
flatten your abs -
forex trading machine -
forex trading made ez -
get your exgirlfriend back -
google snatch -
governmentregistry -
government registry -
grow taller 4 idiots -
guy gets girl -
hcg recipes -
homemadeenergy -
home made energy -
how to break 80 -
hyper vre -
instant domain cash -

Anonymous said...

i software tv -
jamo rama acoustic -
linden method -
lose the back pain -
magni work -
maternityacupressure -
maternity acupressure -
musclegainingsecrets -
muscle gaining secrets -
negative calorie diet -
one minute cure -
one week marketing -
only 4 gamers -
paid surveys online -
panic away -
pc on point -
pc tv 4 me -
perfect optimizer -
phone number scan -
pick the gender of your bady -
power 4 home -
profit lance -
public records pro -
quantum mind power -
quit smoking today -
recipe secrets -
reg clean -
regi cleanse -
registry easy -
registry winner -
reg sweep -
reverse mobile -
reverse phone detective -
revolutioniz -

Anonymous said...

richard markenzie direct -
sale hoo -
simple php -
smtp 2 go -
spyware nuker -
surveys 4 checks -
tax liens made easy -
the bad breath report -
thedietsolutionprogram -
the diet solution program -
the handcrafters companion -
the retired millionaire -
the super mind evolution system -
truth about abs -
truth about diets -
turbulence training -
ultimate content creator -
video piggy -
vincedelmontefitness -
vince del monte fitness -
viral tweets -
warp speed fat loss -
webstigate -
win clear -
win spy -
worlds best compost -
xp repair pro -
yeast infection no more -
your approved -
500 love making tips -
acid alkaline diet -
advanced defrag -
amazing resume creator -

Cinthya said...

Isis Love
Justine Joli
Katja Kassin
Keeani Lei
Lorelei Lee
Madison Young
Mia Bangg
Mika Tan
Nadia Styles
Penny Flame
Princess Donna
Riley Shy
Roxy Deville
Sabrina Fox
Sandra Romain
Savannah Stern
Shy Love
Summer Cummings
Tia Tanaka
Tory Lane
Wenona

Cinthya said...

anime gfs
anime girls
anime girlfriends
wild anime gfs
black teen girlfriends
black gfs
young black gfs
cute black gfs
daddys little gfs
teen gfs
young gfs
little gfs
real emo girlfriends
emo gfs
emo girlfriends
alt gfs
real teenie gfs
teenie gfs
teen gfs
horny teen gfs
really wasted gfs
wasted gfs
durnk gfs
trashed gfs
stick gfs
gfs cumshots
gfs blowjobs
amateur gfs
young asian gfs
asian gfs
wild asian gfs
teen asian gfs

Cinthya said...

gf tits
gf boobs
girlfriend tits
girlfriend boobs
gfs huge boobs
gfs huge tits
natural tits
busty amateur
juicy boobies
girlfriend orgasms
girlfriend sexy
girlfriend amateur
gfs cute
gfs homemade
hottest tens
gfs young
real girlfriend
slut girlfriend
dirty gfs
jizz on my gf
gfs cum face
gfs cumshots
gfs creampies
gfs cum
jizz girlfriends
jizz gfs
girlfriend facials
gfs facial

Cinthya said...

amateur cumshots
me and my asian
asian gfs
cute asians
asian girlfriends
sexy asian gfs
teen asian gfs
asian amateur
amateur asian gfs
asian kinky gfs
hot asian girlfriends
my alternative gf
my suicide gf
emo gfs
punk gfs
alt gfs
indie gfs
emo girlfriends
alternative gfs
amateur emo
dirty emo gfs
my gf loves anal
anal gfs
anal girlfriends
amateur anal
homamade anal
tight anal
hot anal
sexy anal

Cinthya said...

amateur anal gfs
anal pleasure
oral girlfriends
oral gfs
amateur oral
dirty oral
homemade oral
oral cocksucking
oral blowjobs
kinky oral
naughty oral
sexy oral gfs
trashed girlfriends
trashed gfs
drunk gfs
drunk girlfriends
wasted gfs
wild gfs
drunk girls
wild girls drunk
party gfs
fest girlfriends
Benson and Hedges
Benson and Hedges Special Filter KS
Camel
Camel Blue
Camel Filter
Camel Orange Mild KS
Camel Silver Super Lights
Captain Black
Captain Black Regular Tobacco
Cohiba
Cohiba Mini cigarillos
Cohiba Siglo III Slb
Cohiba Siglo V Slb
Davidoff
Davidoff 2000
Davidoff 2000 Tubos

Cinthya said...

Davidoff Classic
Davidoff Light Gold
Davidoff Lights Gold Slims
Drum
Drum Halfzware Blue Tobacco + paper
Drum Mild Tobacco + paper
Dunhill
Dunhill Button Blue Lights KS
Dunhill Fine Cut Silver
Fortuna
Fortuna
Fortuna Blue KS
G.B.
G.B. Gold
G.B. Silver
Gauloises
Gauloises Blondes Blue
Gauloises Blondes Red
Gauloises Blondes Ultra Light Yellow
Gauloises Brunes Non Filter
Gitanes Brunes Non Filter
Gitanes Filter
Golden Gate
Golden Gate KS Hard Pack
Golden Virginia
Golden Virginia Tobacco
H. Upmann
H. Upmann Petit Corona
Henri Wintermans
Henri Wintermans Cafe Creme
Henri Wintermans Cafe Creme Arome
Henri Wintermans Cafe Creme Filter Arome
Henri Wintermans Cafe Creme Mild
Henri Wintermans Half Corona
Henri Wintermans Slim Panatellas
John Player Special
John Player Special KS
Karelia

stop pre ejaculation said...

Thanks a lot for this time sharing about IF IT QUACKS LIKE A DUCK. This is really a nice reading to be sharing.

Cinthya said...

obsessed with myself
self-shooting hotties
sexy webcam girls
amateur webcam hotties
dirty wives exposed
hot wives
sexy housewives
amateur milf
amateur housewives
horny housewives
hot milf
sexy milf
gf melons
girlfriend boobs
gfs huge boobs
gfs huge tits
natural tits
busty amateur
juicy boobies
girlfriend sexy

Cinthya said...

my alternative gf
emo girlfriends
dirty emo gfs
anal gfs
anal girlfriends
amateur anal
homamade anal
tight anal
hot anal
sexy anal
anal pleasure
oral cocksucking
oral blowjobs
drunk girlfriends
drunk girls
wild girls drunk
homemade gfs
hot girlfriends
sexy girlfriends
watch my girlfriend
cute gfs
teen asian gfs
young asian gfs
gfs blowjobs
gfs cumshots
really wasted gfs
teen gfs
real teenie gfs
emo girlfriends
real emo girlfriends

felicity said...

This is an awesome blog post found here... Would like to say thanks very much for the share..

stop pre ejaculation
home treatments for hemorrhoids
No.1 Natural Cure From Japan