Saturday, August 29, 2009

Anti-Sex School for Johns?

In a novel approach to punishing men who attempt to hire prostitutes, Nashville and other cities are sending first-time offenders to a one-day class where they learn from former prostitutes, health experts, psychologists and law enforcement officers about "the risks of hiring a prostitute."

This is a waste of time.

Prostitution is "the oldest profession" for a reason: sex is a biological imperative. A day of anti-sex school will have no effect on the demand for prostitution.

The better approach is to legalize.

Under legalization, the vast majority of men would patronize legal establishments. This would also allow quality control, since competition would encourage prostitution services to certify their employees as free from STDs and above the age of consent. Legalization would help the women who serve as prostitutes by reducing the violence they suffer from johns and pimps. In particular, legalization would mainly eliminate forced prostitution.

The claim that prostitution encourages sexual assault does not pass the sniff test. Many countries, plus Nevada and Rhode Island, allow legal prostitution to varying degrees, but no evidence suggests they have a higher incidence of violence toward women.

34 comments:

Gordon Hutton said...

Let me begin by agreeing with you completely. Legalization of a transaction between consenting adults to engage in consensual sex (of whatever kind, but I'm sure that will appear as another post and entry in your future book) will almost certainly result in the benefits you describe. (And not all prostitutes are female. And think of the impact on unemployment rates and the sprouting of small businesses around the country!)

My problem with the post, is the purely rational basis of the argument. This works well among libertarians (and some progressives) who will readily agree with you. But how can you turn this into a compelling moral argument?

The efforts of Magdalene House in Nashville, suppliers of the former prostitutes who host the "Johns class," are laudable. Thanks to criminalization, these women are mostly victims of low self-esteem, abuse of one sort or another, and abusers of drugs and alcohol. Giving them a way out of this sort of life makes sense to me.

Unfortunately, this is the way most people view prostitution. There is nothing "professional" about it. The Thistle Farms website--the non-profit that runs Magdalene House--uses language like, "We stand in solidarity with women who are recovering from sexual abuse, violence, and life on the streets, and who have paid dearly for a culture that buys and sells women like commodities." Emphasis is mine.

How do we effectively state arguments that overcome such emotions and beliefs? How do we overcome the moral basis for anti-prostitution stances? I believe that the rational arguments are the foundation, but unless we can be compelling beyond this, we're just preaching to the converted.

I'm not looking to change the views of the extreme right, but rather to win sympathetic support from the middle that likely doesn't think too much about such issues. And, when they do give it a passing thought, they access the databases of their brains and retrieve the "prostitution bad" records passively written there throughout their lives via religion, news, and entertainment.

Dr. Miron, I'm just another lost libertarian looking for guidance and looking forward to your book.

Mike Huben said...

The low quality of Miron's arguments are a source of continued amazement to me. Let's see how many stupidities we can pick out of a mere two sentences.

"Prostitution is "the oldest profession" for a reason: sex is a biological imperative. A day of anti-sex school will have no effect on the demand for prostitution."

First is the idea that he would argue based on a goofy folk expression. "The oldest profession" is merely a euphemism that is supposed to be witty, but shows instead the same old-fashioned disdain for women. There is no actual evidence of how old prostitution is. But there is plenty of evidence for the real "oldest profession" for women: child rearing. And the evolutionary evidence shows that child rearing predates viviparous mammals.

I agree that sex is a biological imperative, but so are eating and defection. Biological imperatives are NOT necessarily reasons for particular professions, and Miron is being glib and stupid presenting this. If he was an ancient Greek warrior, he might argue that catamites were due to biological imperatives (and by biological imperatives he must mean alleviating male sexual urges and not reproduction, since nobody expects modern prostitutes to bear them children.) There are many outlets for these biological imperatives other than prostitution or sex with male minors.

Third, "anti-sex school" is not the same as "the risks of hiring a prostitute." It's likely that alternatives such as how to find girlfriends without having to hire them might be discussed. As this is an experimental program, it deserves to be evaluated on empirical grounds, not dismissed with apriori ideological sniggering.

"A day of anti-sex school will have no effect": just how does Miron know this? Did it not work when he was attending? :-) There are plenty of programs which do have substantial effects on recidivism. Miron is just making shit up here: the article itself claims a 30% reduction in recidivism for 10 years.

So let's see: that's four problems with two sentences. The quality of the rest isn't any better.

Mike Huben said...

Miron uses the term "legalization" vaguely. There's the libertarian sense of unregulated legalization, and then there's the real world sense of highly regulated legalization that he mentions as examples. Regulation and libertarianism clash rather strongly: it would be nice if Miron came out and said that it SHOULD be legal to hire whores irrespective of whether they had pimps, syphilis, AIDS or were only 13 years old. And where ever you wanted: you should be able to fuck exposed in any public place. Etc. That's real liberty according to libertarians: what place has government or anybody else telling you not to do that, they say.

"[...] competition would encourage prostitution services to certify their employees as free from STDs and above the age of consent."
The expensive ones for the gentry, perhaps. The competitive race to the bottom price would also provide a large supply of uncertified prostitutes. Libertarians don't really believe in an age of consent either. What place does government have telling you you are too young to have sex, they say.

Legalization of either sort doesn't solve a number of important externalities. For example, the article mentions that roughly half the johns are married, which means they are violating their contract with infidelity (most likely: few people have open marriages.) Legalization would exacerbate that problem. Libertarians are supposed to think voluntary contracts are important, aren't they? And while male libertarians may not be impressed by expressions such as "a culture that buys and sells women like commodities", be assured that's one of the reasons why liberals have an even sex ratio and libertarians are heavily skewed towards males.

With libertarian-style unregulated prostitution, we would expect a significant increase in prostitution and thus a significant increase in sexually transmitted disease, assuming transmission rates stayed the same. But that's not a good assumption, as anyone with knowledge of epidemiology could tell you: the rate of transmission would go way up as the number of people with large numbers of sexual partners increased.

I sure hope Miron's academic work is better than this.

Steve M. said...

Mike Huben,

You can relax your hard on. No one is listening.

Steve M. said...

While we're at it let's test the tenability of
the arguments of the esteemed Mike Huben. Allow
me to proceed without casting aspersions. Which is more than I can say for our friend Mike.

First, let me say that Miron's brevity leaves him upon to ridicule. He is presenting his argument in a few short paragraphs. Generalizations are bound to happen. Perhaps the class will have a SLIGHT effect on the demand for prostitution. But I believe it will be negligible.

The larger issue is, what is the best way to mitigate the harmful effects of prostitution?, i.e. STDs, expolitation, etc... It seems that your solution is based on the idea that prohibition will actually reduce this behavior significantly. This view doesn't seem to hold water.


Your attack on Miron's "oldest profession" claim is thin and pointless. I suspect that the use of this "goofy folk expression" was nothing more than rhetorical flare. And your invocation of "vivaporous mammals"leaves me scratching my head.

"It's likely that alternatives such as how to find girlfriends without
having to hire them might be discussed"

Are you kidding me? Is your view of human nature, as Thomas Sowell would say, really this "unrestrained"? You castigate the core ideas of libertariansim as naive and unfounded, and you think that government education is going to reduce prostitution to a signifcant degree by stressing such an elementary point!

"Third, "anti-sex school" is
not the same as "the risks of hiring a prostitute."

Abt Associates, the conductors of the study, stress that this was the only area in which the program performed well.

"In its pre- and post-class survey, Abt Associates found that the program performed well in informing johns about the CONSEQUENCES of participating in prostitution. However, this improved understanding was not accompanied by a significant shift in the self-reported likelihood of changing BEHAVIOR"

"The expensive ones for the gentry, perhaps.
The competitive race to the bottom price would also provide a large supply of uncertified
prostitutes."

Ah, yes. Imagine that. A large supply of "uncertified prostitutes". Perhaps we should make such a practice illegal.

What Mike is arguing is that his policy of significantly reducing the amount of prostitution is preferable to Miron's policy of reducing its pernicious effects. Well, yeah.

Of course this assumes that we actually know how to do it.

Anonymous said...

eatstopeat -
eat stop eat -
error fix -
error killer -
evidence nuker -
fap turbo -
fatburningfurnace -
fat burning furnace -
fatloss4idiots -
fat loss 4 idiots -
final uninstaller -
fitnessmodelprogram -
fitness model program -
flatten your abs -
gamers testing ground -
gov auction -
governmentregistry -
government registry -
gov records -
herbal hair solution -
homebre ware -
home job group -
homemadeenergy -
home made energy -
inteli gator -
joanas world -
joyful tomato -
kidney stone remedy -
learn digital photography now -
learn elements now -
linden method -
lose man boobs -
malware removal bot -
maternityacupressure -

Anonymous said...

advanced defrag -
adware alert -
adware bot -
affiliate elite -
anti spyware -
anti spyware bot -
article bully -
art of approaching -
auto pilot profits -
bbq book -
blogging in action -
body building revealed -
burnthefat -
burn the fat -
carb rotation diet -
chopper tattoo -
conversationalhypnosis -
conversational hypnosis -
cure for tinnitus -
debt free in three -
driver checker -
duplicate file cleaner -
earth4energy -
earth 4 energy -
easy member pro -
easy tv soft -
eatstopeat -
eat stop eat -
end your tinnitus -
fap winner -
fat burning furnace -
fatloss4idiots -
fat loss 4 idiots -
final sync -

Anonymous said...

Brilliant website, I hadn't noticed jeffreymiron.blogspot.com previously during my searches!
Carry on the excellent work!

Anonymous said...

Thanks for sharing the link, but unfortunately it seems to be offline... Does anybody have a mirror or another source? Please answer to my post if you do!

I would appreciate if a staff member here at jeffreymiron.blogspot.com could post it.

Thanks,
Harry

Anonymous said...

Homeopathic medication is actually a organic form of therapeutic!
[url=http://www.homeopathicdoctors.org/]homeopathy courses[/url]

Generic Viagra said...

Good evening to all! I express my interest in this subject, I think long ago I had the opportunity to read an article like this so fabulous! I am fascinated by how much that helped me in my work! thank you very much for providing the information!

Anonymous said...

Hi,

Thanks for sharing the link - but unfortunately it seems to be down? Does anybody here at jeffreymiron.blogspot.com have a mirror or another source?


Thanks,
William

stop pre ejaculation said...

Thanks a lot for this time sharing of Libertarianism about ANTI-SEX SCHOOL FOR JOHNS. This in really one of the best article i have ever read.

Anonymous said...

Your ѕtyle is so uniquе in cоmpаrisоn to othеr
folks Ι have гead stuff frοm. Thanks for posting when you've got the opportunity, Guess I'll just book mark this sіte.
http://www.tinnitus411.com/pulsatile-tinnitus/

Anonymous said...

I loved as much as you'll receive carried out right here. The sketch is tasteful, your authored subject matter stylish. nonetheless, you command get bought an impatience over that you wish be delivering the following. unwell unquestionably come further formerly again since exactly the same nearly a lot often inside case you shield this increase. Recommended Web site
my webpage :: Recommended Web site

Anonymous said...

Thanks a lot for sharing this with all folks you actually know what you're talking about! Bookmarked. Please additionally visit my website =). We may have a link trade contract among us

Look into my web blog binary options
My page :: best online trading for beginners

Anonymous said...

I don't know whether it's just me оr if evеrybody else encounteгing prоblemѕ with youг sitе.
It appeаrs аs thоugh sοme of the writtеn text on yοur posts arе runnіng
off the screen. Can someboԁy elѕe please сomment аnԁ let me κnow if thiѕ is happеnіng to them too?
This might be a problem wіth my browser bесausе Ӏ've had this happen previously. Thanks http://www.youcanstopsweating.com/stop-underarm-sweating/

Anonymous said...

Hello to eѵeгу bοdy, it's my first visit of this webpage; this website consists of awesome and truly good information in favor of readers. Continued

Anonymous said...

Wonderful work! This іs thе kind of info thаt are meant to
bе sharеd acrοss the web. Disgrace on thе sеarch еngines fοr not positioning this post
uρpеr! Come οn οver and seek
аdvice from my sіte . Thanks =) http://www.Farmvillehelp.net/farmville-tips/

Anonymous said...

Thіs ρost presеnts сlear ideа deѕigned for the new viewеrѕ
of blogging, that іn fаct how to do running a blog.
nocturnal panic attacks symptoms

Anonymous said...

Hellо to eveгy onе, the сontents existing at this web ѕite
aгe rеally awesome for people еxρerіencе, wеll,
keep up the gooԁ work fellows. wikipnfi.uptadi.net.ve

Anonymous said...

Whoа! This blοg lookѕ exactlу like my оld one!
Ιt's on a totally different topic but it has pretty much the same layout and design. Great choice of colors! http://www.growtallermaster.com/ways-to-get-taller/

Anonymous said...

Great beat ! I wish to аpprеnticе even as you amend your ωeb
site, how cаn i subscгibе for a weblog web sіte?

The account helрed mе a applicable deal.
I have been a little bit acquainted of this уоur broadcaѕt рrovideԁ vіviԁ tranѕpaгent idea just click the following document

Anonymous said...

Fantastic itemѕ from you, man. I've remember your stuff prior to and you're sіmply
too wonԁerful. I actually like what you have receіved heгe, rеally like what you are
saying and the way wherein you say it. You are making it еnjoyable аnd you still
take care of to keep it ωise. I сan't wait to read much more from you. This is actually a wonderful website. Learn More Here

Anonymous said...

Ӏ was recommended this web site by meanѕ of my cousin.
I am nоt posіtive whetheг oг not this put uρ is written through him as no one else rеalize
such paгticulаr about my tгoublе.
Yοu arе amazing! Thank you! offbeat

Anonymous said...

Link exchange is nothing else except it is simply placing
the other person's weblog link on your page at proper place and other person will also do similar in support of you.

Feel free to surf to my page http://sotnya.smarty.net.ua/forum/knigi-i-produktsiya-izdatelstva/15383

Anonymous said...

Hello, Neat post. There is an issue together with
your website in web explorer, might test this? IE nonetheless is the marketplace chief and a
huge part of other people will pass over your excellent writing
due to this problem.

Have a look at my website ... www.foodprocessing.com

Anonymous said...

I drop a leave a response each time I like a post on a site or I have something
to valuable to contribute to the conversation.
Usually it is a result of the passion displayed in the post I looked at.
And after this post "Anti-Sex School for Johns?".
I was actually excited enough to post a leave a responsea response
:-) I actually do have a few questions for you if it's allright. Is it only me or does it look as if like a few of the remarks look as if they are written by brain dead visitors? :-P And, if you are posting on other social sites, I would like to keep up with you. Would you make a list all of your social sites like your twitter feed, Facebook page or linkedin profile?

My web blog - free weight loss programs

Anonymous said...

I'd like to find out more? I'd likе tο find οut more ԁetails.
http://recentarticless.info/

Anonymous said...

I feel that is one of the so much іmportant info for me.
Αnd i am hаppy reаding your article.

Hoωеver ωanna remаrk on somе basic iѕsues, The site
style iѕ perfect, the articles іs аctuallу eхcellent :
D. Juѕt гight job, cheeгs http://www.panicandanxietycenter.com/obsessive-compulsive-disorder/ocd-medication/

Anonymous said...

If some one desires expert view on the topic of running a blog then i propose him/her to pay a quick
visit this webpage, Keep up the nice work.

Feel free to surf to my site; Mederma Stretch Mark Therapy Reviews

Anonymous said...

Dο you have a ѕpam іssue οn this ωebsite; I аlso am a blоgger, anԁ
ӏ was wonderіng your sіtuаtіon;
many of us haνe crеated ѕοme nice methods аnd ωe are loоking tο swap technіquеs ωith others, be
sure to shoot me an e-mаil if inteгested. http://Mymilitarysocial.com/members/wallacepa/activity/635865

Anonymous said...

Your ωrіtе-up fеaturеѕ ѵerifiеd helpful to
us. It’s quite informative anԁ you're simply naturally extremely knowledgeable in this region. You get popped our sight for you to varying opinion of this topic together with intriguing, notable and solid articles.

Feel free to surf to my site buy soma online

Anonymous said...

Hi, I do think your blog might be having web browser compatibility problems.
When I take a look at your blog in Safari, it looks fine
however when opening in IE, it has some overlapping
issues. I just wanted to give you a quick heads up!
Besides that, excellent website!

Check out my page :: http://thefatlossshangout.blogspot.com/2013/05/fat-loss-factor-michael-allen_25.html